NewAmerica
Banned
Mandarin
- Jul 28, 2018
- #1
Well be honest, the first glance (lasted less than a second) of the world bustard led me to think "bastard"...then I quickly returned to animal science: it is a rare bird that needs protection.
But culturally speaking, such bird is naturally linked to a negative image in Chinese Culture, for it is the image of a bawd (the image worsens due to the description of it in one of the most famous novels in China:A Pilgrimage to the West by Wu Cheng En.
The question of this thread is: Does the word "bustard" have a negative connotation in English-speaking culture? (Here we don't talk about science of the word but the culture of the word)
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Is the Great Indian Bustard About to Go Extinct?
Only one male has turned up at the birds’ breeding grounds this year—and he’s too young to breed
Nearly 60 years ago the legendary ornithologist Sálim Ali made a bold proposition: A three-foot-tall bird known as the great Indian bustard, he suggested, should be named as the national bird of India.
-Scientific American
owlman5
Senior Member
Colorado
English-US
- Jul 28, 2018
- #2
It has no negative connotation that I can think of. Most people here in the U.S. have probably never heard of the bustard, NA. Its name does sound similar to "bastard". I doubt that that would be enough to put anybody off. I'm familiar with the name because I've seen it mentioned in a few books about African and Asian wildlife.
Some people probably do have negative opinions about "buzzards", which is a common name for "vultures" in the U.S. They sure don't disgust me, however. I must admit that the turkey vulture is quite ugly with its "skinned-meat" head, but that's not enough to make me hate it.
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sdgraham
Senior Member
Oregon, USA
USA English
- Jul 28, 2018
- #3
NewAmerica said:
The question of this thread is: Does the word "bustard" have a negative connotation in English-speaking culture? (Here we don't talk about science of the word but the culture of the word)
No, not at all, but you are not the first person to be confused by similarity with bastard
NewAmerica
Banned
Mandarin
- Jul 28, 2018
- #4
Thank you.
bennymix
Senior Member
- Jul 28, 2018
- #5
"bustard" is not known by many people; not found around here; no special connotation.
It's a handsome bird!
Bustard - Wikipedia
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RedwoodGrove
Senior Member
Northern California
English, USA
- Jul 28, 2018
- #6
I seem to remember there was a comedy (movie) back in the early 60s that took place on a navy ship named "The Bustard". One line I recall was something like: "Any spelling errors will not be tolerated!"
sdgraham
Senior Member
Oregon, USA
USA English
- Jul 28, 2018
- #7
In the long-ago days of my youth , stories of hunting in Africa were common, particularly in outdoor magazines (of which I was an aficionado).
I remember Ernest Hemingway also wrote of that bird.
NewAmerica
Banned
Mandarin
- Jul 28, 2018
- #8
sdgraham said:
I remember Ernest Hemingway also wrote of that bird.
What is the cultural image of the bird under the Nobel laureate's pen? Still that of a positive connotation?
So when I read that the legendary ornithologist Sálim Ali proposed to make it the national bird of India, I was shocked, culturally. For in traditional Chinese culture, the bird is seen as the meanest, lewdest bird of all. The renowned novelist Wu Cheng En has put it relentlessly.
Scientifically speaking, this bird is profoundly wronged. Only when scientific thinking is popular in China, the cultural shock will continue.
E
Egmont
Senior Member
Massachusetts, U.S.
English - U.S.
- Jul 28, 2018
- #9
RedwoodGrove said:
I seem to remember there was a comedy (movie) back in the early 60s that took place on a navy ship named "The Bustard". One line I recall was something like: "Any spelling errors will not be tolerated!"
That would be Nobody's Perfect (1968). The USS Bustard was a submarine rescue vessel.
bennymix
Senior Member
Now, Ontario, Canada. California; Princeton, NJ.
English (American).
- Jul 28, 2018
- #10
sdgraham said:
In the long-ago days of my youth
, stories of hunting in Africa were common, particularly in outdoor magazines (of which I was an aficionado).
I remember Ernest Hemingway also wrote of that bird.
Here's one passage: Hemingway on Hunting
sdgraham
Senior Member
Oregon, USA
USA English
- Jul 28, 2018
- #11
NewAmerica said:
What is the cultural image of the bird under the Nobel laureate's pen? Still that of a positive connotation?
You cannot assume that just because your culture ascribes a certain image to a bird (or any other creature), that all cultures follow suit.
To misquote Sigmund Freud, "Sometimes a bird is just a bird."
Trochfa
Senior Member
UK
English - England
- Jul 28, 2018
- #12
My family has always been quite keen on nature, and we used to joke about "the great bustard" as if it were a euphemism for "the great bastard!"
It doesn't really carry any connotation other than the resemblance to "bastard" which you noticed, and so that is occasionally used in joking situations here where people understand what you are talking about.
Great bustard:
It became extinct in Great Britain when the last bird was shot in 1832. Recent attempts to reintroduce it into England have met with some success[3] and there is a population of 40 birds on Salisbury Plain, a British Army training area. Here the lack of public access allows them the freedom needed as a large ground-nesting bird.
Great bustard - Wikipedia
PaulQ
Senior Member
UK
English - England
- Jul 28, 2018
- #13
In ”Grammar of British Heraldry” By William S. Sloane-Evans Pub 1817, the bustard and the ostrich were grouped together and their symbolism was:
2. THE BUSTARD.—20. The OSTRICH.
It seems to mean that the bustard represented someone who was better at telling people what to do, rather than doing it.
The former of these is borne by the family of NEVILL. [...] The latter, which is not so rare, “resembleth one who is a better indicater than an orator, helping by his wing what he cannot by his tongue or feet.
However, the symbolism of heraldry is a lost art for all but a handful of people.
dojibear
Senior Member
Fresno CA
English (US - northeast)
- Jul 28, 2018
- #14
I've never heard of "bustards", so it has no connotations.
NewAmerica said:
So when I read that the legendary ornithologist Sálim Ali proposed to make it the national bird of India, I was shocked, culturally.
In the US we have "buzzards", a bird that has a bad reputation here. Many people in the US would be shocked if someone proposed the buzzard as the national bird of a country.
JulianStuart
Senior Member
Sonoma County CA
English (UK then US)
- Jul 28, 2018
- #15
The N. American buzzard (Any scavenging bird such as the American black vulture (Coragyps atratus) or the turkey vulture (Cathartes aura).) differs from the old world birds of the same name. While they have a reputation based on their eating habits ( ), they are an important part of cleaning up other dead animals that would otherwise rot and be an even worse phenomenon than the buzzard! The bustard, however, only seems to get a bad rap in Chinese culture.
sdgraham
Senior Member
Oregon, USA
USA English
- Jul 28, 2018
- #16
JulianStuart said:
The N. American buzzard (Any scavenging bird such as the American black vulture (Coragyps atratus) or the turkey vulture (Cathartes aura).) differs from the old world birds of the same name. While they have a reputation based on their eating habits (
), they are an important part of cleaning up other dead animals that would otherwise rot and be an even worse phenomenon than the buzzard! The bustard, however, only seems to get a bad rap in Chinese culture.
In our home in the hills, I just toss dead things over the fence and the buzzards have things cleaned up in a day or so.
It is indeed pejorative to call somebody an "ugly old buzzard."
Our vultures are not bustards, however, as described above.
Truffula
Senior Member
English - USA
- Jul 30, 2018
- #17
Hemingway on bustard: he seemed to think they had a beautiful way of flying, and that they tasted good.
"And did you ever see the quick, smooth-lifting, reaching flight the lesser bustard has, or make a double on them, right and left...? ... and with the lesser bustard and the teal, there is no bird to beat them for pan, the griddle or the oven."
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